Rise, My AHLers.

Discussion in 'Leaguegaming American Hockey League (LGAHL)' started by MadeOf21Faces, Nov 28, 2016.

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  1. Hainers

    Hainers Thad Castle

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    I would like to point out last season when Negi was banned and Manitoba tried to get AJ9191 as their GM. The league did not allow it. He was also not signed up.
     
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  2. Skizzostone

    Skizzostone Well-Known Member

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    We did the same thing for rishkoi when tino quit and got told it had to be someone already on our roster. too bad no BoGs magically assigned someone to ours for no apparent reason.

    I guess if you whine and bitch enough the league will let you do anything. I don't even care that they did it, I care that numerous other people have tried and got shut down and now a team run by crass the puppet master finds another unfair competitive advantage and the league rolls out the red fricken carpet for it. unbelievable.

    Edit: @Coach Crass
     
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  3. Mxckie

    Mxckie Banana League Hero

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    The problem here is that it isn't a grey area in the slightest. The rule book clearly states the only way to promote a new GM through the season is if they are currently on your roster. If not, you must trade for their rights before making them a GM. The problem here is a rule is being enforced because Brodie would, for lack of a better way to put it, LIKE the rule of being able to make anyone your GM if they didn't sign up in the rule book.

    @LG McDonald I'm genuinely curious as to why this one is allowed, but when Tino quit in the last week Rochester couldn't do shit and their team as a result took a huge hit. That happened after the trade deadline, so the excuse I hear @Bake703 was given of it being too late because of it being after the deadline is complete shit. This is a huge double standard. The fact it involves Crass means nothing, there's no way he knew that Brodie wanted this rule in there unless there is some SERIOUS collusion happening here; this would be an issue regardless of who was on or running the team.

    Also, to all of those saying that it's "just a game" or "who cares" (@C4NADA, @LowLifeSociety, @Frosty in Net) feel free to take your talents to a banana league. We play here for organised, competitive, FAIR 6s. If we wrote rules and didn't follow them just because "meh, it's a game" this league would not be at the size it has grown to be. Go fly kites.

    Also x2, telling someone to get a life over an internet hockey league that you play in? Really @Frosty in Net? You on here playing internet hockey just like the rest of us.
     
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  4. Kbsmith37

    Kbsmith37 KCS

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    An NHL team tried this in S22, it was debated and allowed for a short time. Then it was reversed.
     
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  5. dityboycom

    dityboycom I don't agree with you Platinum

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    Brodies on vacation gentlemen you'll have too put your pitch forks away until the weekend.
     
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  6. Hopestrom

    Hopestrom Well-Known Member

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    First of all I have ton of respect for the work ppl like @LG McDonald has put into this league to make it what it is. I show the website to some of my friends who dont play LG and the reaction is almost all the same. It's incredibly structured and detailed.

    So as this thing grows holes will be found in the rules.

    Managers can either operate with honor and help improve the systems or due to a lack of moral value try their best to find and abuse every crack they can.

    Brodie admitted to bending this rule previously to help out teams. (This I agree with) non playoff teams. Giving a struggling team a little stability is probably for the better interest of league. (Now this a absolutely do not agree with) Allowing the same rule circomvention for a team at the top of its conference. It is just a slap in the face of every competetive team below playing with the same rules.

    It's against the rules. So shame on all parties involved.

    Are we taking this shit serious or not? How many hours do we all have invested in this over the years. I'm not even management!

    I still want to win like anyone else, but something like this just makes me care a little less bc I feel the system does too.

    If I could make a judgement for all managers. It would be this:

    You have to play by the rule but WBS doesn't. So FF all remaining games against them. If they want to sit here and have the balls to break the rules in front of us for whatever advantage it is- just give them the win. They are not worth our time.
     
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  7. KermieFinesse

    KermieFinesse “Neva Seen It” -Dilly Bubbles

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  8. macros73

    macros73 Just This Guy

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    It's sad that we face another constitutional crisis and that we're building up to a mass protest again over a Coach Crass team.

    I've lost faith in the ability of this league to follow its own rules. I do not agree with the interpretation presented by McDonald. Interpretations should be as narrow as possible when varying from the written rules, not as wide as possible. There is nothing in that section which says it only applies to players already on rosters. It says players have to BE on a roster already.

    If you want this to change, you're going to have to riot like you did the last time Crass tried to pull bullshit in LG.
     
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  9. CornHoleCaron

    CornHoleCaron CHC

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    Nothing against the player himself but what if he's the reason his team wins that important game that kicks another team out of the playoffs in the last week? A whole roster full of guys who invested hours in this league won't be able to make the playoffs because this shit was allowed? This is what drives people away from leagues.

    Be fair to all 30 teams or let all 30 teams exploit this.
     
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  10. LG McDonald

    LG McDonald Director of Hockey Operations

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    Based on what has been posted I'll take the time to address the individual concerns to better help shed light on this debate.

    @MadeOf21Faces

    As posted in the other thread started by Bake, and after some PM discussions had with him as well about this topic there was some opinion formed on what was said. Opinions are completely fine, by no means does everyone whom comes to LG have to agree with me. It isn't my personality to be a dictator and my past history has shown, especially in regards to people posting their opinions I welcome it since there are a lot of great ideas out there from members like @macros73

    This decision has nothing to do with the trade deadline... and like I've said over and over again it has everything to do with a rule that was considered and never adjusted or added into the rules we have today. That was collectively discussed among the BOG.

    If you look at the entire management selection process right now in the Constitution, and compare it to how we operate there is a glaring issue... No where does it say that you can select a player whom is a free agent... So during the off-season when a guy isn't on a roster anymore and can't be traded for or on your roster how does the League allow that member to take GM? One can argue that, since it is the off-season that is the norm and what not, but when you break down the entire situation whether it be during the season or during the off-season the rules support a contracted players under contract being traded for that is it.

    The obvious intent of the rules being quoted during this process is to protect your team's contracted assets and ensure that a player simply cannot be taken from your roster and you are not compensated for that. The League has always supported that.

    The mentally that has allowed a free agent jump onto a team mid season as a manager has always been of the thought that what truly is the difference of it happening during the season or during the off-season? The management criteria was still met thereby making the player eligible for management so what does it truly matter if the player was added mid season or not?

    The arguments made by @macros73 @Da Young Buck have posted about both their rosters not having an second AGM currently so they are looking to seek the help of any unsigned up NHL talent currently.... My reply to that is what is the difference of that happening now or prior to the season starting? Either way the issue here isn't bringing in a "NHL" player... it can't be since that can occur during the off-season's management selection anyways.

    The comments where you discuss how "this is a black and white case, it's in the rules etc". That is 100% you projecting your opinion onto the community has if that is the ONLY way it can be. Once again, I appreciate your opinion, but you have to come to realize that just because you have an opinion, doesn't mean that is exactly how things are are. I wrote Article One, and when you go digging around, clearly I left out anything in regards to making a free agent your manager. The intent of the wording that talks about a player being on your roster OR traded for was meant for situations where you wanted a player someone else's roster. Therefore you'd have to trade for that player or win a waiver claim etc... That entire section was to protect teams from having their players simply taken without being compensated. That is it... it doesn't discuss or debate making a free agent a manager which is how 80% of managers are promoted anyways.

    The final argument made by @MadeOf21Faces in regards to "how can this be fair to everyone who has lost a manager this season" when they didn't know this wasn't a rule. Fair statement in my opinion, but why didn't those other teams ask us for that option? You are right, people can't read my mind, but I've made myself extremely accessible on the site, GroupMe, Facebook etc to address LG questions 24-7....What I am going to post below will outline a few seasons of historical events that have allowed this same situation to occur time and time again, without this much of a public uproar. Like I stated before since this has a history and a precedent was set, other teams are afforded this same option until the rule is cleared up.

    I appreciate you taking it upon yourself to post your displeasure about an issue. I think you've blown this way out of proportion causing this to seem like something major when it truly isn't. Thanks for being some what professional during this process, but I prefer the opportunity to explain myself and decisions to you one on one prior to the next time you decide to go on a public crusade over something that could be relatively explained well. Does't mean I am expecting to change your mine or opinion. But at least I can give you a justified determination, so all of those people whom want to assume the "league is ran by dishonest" people can hear for themselves why something has changed.

    By all means I'm not immune mistakes and such, and the League and rules are far from perfect but my moral standards and integrity are things I take extreme pride in. To assume or think I'm simply "ignoring" the rules is ludicrous, I am enforcing a standard and practice that has been accepted for several seasons now and upholding the intent of a rule I wrote.

    To @Bake703 @Schizostone

    The debate that occurred with Tino last season when he quit was something I had to refresh my memory on and look up. The ONLY PM I have from you both, you both are in as well. The date is Aug 5th-2016, title is "Agm" as a reference. No where in that PM or in any PM around that time was there ever any mention of making anyone OTHER than Schizostone your AGM. At the time it was unfortunate being so closed to the playoffs like you said, but at that time the writing on the wall was promoting Schi to AGM, dropping his 5 million salary allow for call up space.

    Last season as well, by this time there was already two situations whereby an AGM was selected from the free agent pool and promoted to the free AGM spot mid season. Both those situations also didn't not get the public attention of this issue.

    If there was another convo I wasn't involved in whereby you were told that you could not promote a free agent to AGM, or a discussion whereby you asked if a certain player COULD take AGM for you and it was denied because that player was a free agent then I do apologize for bringing this point up and I'm sorry you were given incorrect info last season.

    The only reason why it has been mentioned is it seems as if some of the community want to formula their personal opinions of me and this decision around comments made by other which do not offer then entire story or all the facts involved. Therefore from the records I have, Schi was the ONLY person Bake asked about to take GM last season when Tino quit.

    No disrespect was meant by my comments above towards @Bake703 or @Schizostone

    To @Hainers

    The AJ, and Manitoba situation is yet another great example of people not getting all the facts and basing their opinions around half of a story. I actually forgot about this situation and the headaches it caused. The community at the time was actually upset the League simply didn't let AJ take the role...

    The reasoning that was behind the reversal of AJ taking that position was that he was a retired player at the time. We didn't allow players to come out of retirement mid season.

    The League never told Manitoba they couldn't have AJ when the original talks were had about him taking over. But the League had no choice to enforce that he cannot be an AGM after we found out he was retired at that time, and during that season several others whom retired were told they too could not return to mid season from a retirement.

    The public uproar and chatbox issues that arose from that where how the "league was fucking Manitoba"... yet months later the same situation arises, the only difference was that the player whom was selected for AGM is eligible to be a manager and play this season....

    Keep in mind this Manitoba situation occurred AFTER SJ Barracuda had their AGM quit, allowing @KillerCanadian8 to be added mid season as a free agent to an AGM role. The SJ team at the time was struggling to win a game therefore the community did not seem to have any issues with what occurred.

    No disrespect meant towards @Hainers, I am unaware of if you knew those facts or not prior to your comments.

    To @Kbsmith37

    Once again, I just want to add clarification to what you said since some will formula their opinion around it.

    Reference the S22 Rosters---> http://leaguegaming.com/forums/inde...on=league&page=roster&leagueid=37&seasonid=22

    Two issues arose that season around mid season management selections that were debated. Both situations had to do with RA players being assigned as mid season managers.

    The rules stated that Prospects and RA Veteran players couldn't come to the NHL.... The debate that occurred with the Owner's was in regards to why have these same restrictions on mid-season promotions? When we broke it all down and looked at the situation, the reasoning behind the no prospect rule was to not promote second tags in the NHL. Bouch was CLEARLY not a second so him being promoted mid season to a struggling team was deemed acceptable by the Owners and I. This was also before Ps lost NHL ECU eligibility.

    The other issue was about RA V... The rules didn't want to see RA V in the NHL because it undermine the contract and bidding system. The argument was made why does that matter if a player was stepping into a free management position?

    There was also debates and talks about players walking in for free agency as well because I think it was this season or the one before whereby @brandovedo grabbed JamieP as the AGM because his original guy quit. The Owners at the time had some concerns but since it was deemed fair game for all the issue never got the attention that this one did.

    Valid points, I had to look back at all this as well. Once again not trying to discredit you or debate things from the past, but those are the three situations I dealt with from S22 similar to this.

    To @Hopestrom

    I have a hard time really expressing how I feel about what you've posted. Right off the bat I appreciate how you've stated that you have a ton of respect for the work I've done but a lot of what else you've posted contradicts itself.

    You are right, and I agree that if you look hard enough you maybe able to see some holes in the rules. I also agree that it takes a set level of honor to operate and manage your team in the light rather than continuing to look for an advantage in the grey. Perhaps an integrity clause needs to be added to the rules and regulations whereby if a team tried to us a loop hole as an advantage the League can thereby deny the request, and retroactively correct the issue. There has been several members of this community whom have looked hard and high for those holes to gain those advantages and yet to have found true success in doing so. That also has lead to some success(on the ice) members of this community being revoked from every returning to management again. Based completely off the honor system you've discussed as well.

    Where what you say gets fuzzy for me is first off I didn't admit to bending the rules for a non playoff team... I stated this wasn't in the rules in the past seasons therefore it was honored when asked about. That same issue has yet to make it into the rules thereby allow a past precedent to uphold what we have seen this season. But for you to say that you are okay with it being allowed for one team but not another IMO is far worse of a decision that would lead to a worse outcome than what we have today. It has to be all or nothing.

    I also understand and respect how situations like this make you careless, because if I am honest they are draining for staff and I as well. Love me or hate me, that is irrelevant but the community needs to ask themselves if they truly believe I am as bad as they want to make me out to be at times. They also need to consider that I'm blessed to have the work schedule I have(7 shifts a month), the GF I have whom allows me to step 40+ hours on here a day and the systems I continue to utilize for our benefit(GC insight, using the AHL GMs opinions for rule changes, when they don't truly get a vote, etc)

    And finally to even consider forfeiting games to that team is insane. Let's consider the skaters on each roster whom sign up to play hockey and not get involved in the political nature of debates like this. How is it truly far to make them forfeit a game? What respect does throwing a game in protest show? All it does is lowest the League perspective lower than that of banana leagues whom can't even compare to us.

    I appreciate your passion and dedication, I truly do, but at times we need to be rational and do what is right and just even if we feel others haven't.


    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    I am a bit taken back after seeing and hearing some of the disrespectful comments about me and decisions like this. It never seems to amaze me how much people forget the good and process made when something they don't agree with occurs. Then of course we see several people project their personal opinion onto situations and the band wagon affect begins. Which leads to a lack of appreciation and creates an overall negative experience for all.

    After a few meetings last night with managers like @Vattyyy and @UhOh i Poopeded whereby Staff and I have allowed them to personally express their concerns with us and decisions directly some progress seems to have been made with those two individuals. There is way way way too much misconception on this website, and the negative comments and people feed off that misconception and breed such a poor environment for the league and site. @MadeOf21Faces Made yet another great point about how the game related issues has been so toxic for our community this season, which it has been probably more than any other season we've had. Yet the finger wants to be pointed at me for "adding" to that negative experience. I think realistically a lot if not all of these public concerns could have been dealt with one on one on Xbox face to face. But yet we have a community whom seems extremely unwilling to do so. But yet public rants add to a negative environment pushing people away from using the website and nothing drastically changes. And yet we still hear rumors of an "AHL Strike" or "Let's forfeit games until things change"... Because all of that truly embraces nothing but negativity during a time where we are struggling with the game we want to play due to outside issues we cannot control.

    I tried to set up 6-7 meetings last night and it was unsuccessful after I received several excuses as to why people couldn't make it. I'm 28 years old, and have a professional career where I deal with people's problems often. If you think I am going to sit down and yell and scream at you for no reason, you are sadly mistaken. Professionalism is something we lack on LG, and it is something I am hoping to change by leading by example every time I can.

    By no means is the League perfect. Mistakes will be made, hence why we see inconsistency at times. A great example is how The Bruin's managers were suspended one game this season for waiving each other several times.... then we had @Dunks and @bat10b do the same thing, but less frequency only get a warning. Then finally we have @l1l Sharp l0l do it "as a joke" and get hit with a one game suspension. In my opinion, justice wasn't served and the suspension on Sharp was not the correct decision. The perceptive of that series of events is that the League and site is catering to top players. Which I cannot argue appears that way from what occurred. But what the reality is of what occurred was the fact that those four situations were handled by three different people whom didn't realize of see what the other's decision was in the first place. It had nothing to do with the people involved, it had everything to do with a communication break down between staff members and for that I do apologize as well.

    As stated before, at the end of the day you do not have to agree with every decision the league makes. And if you end up not agreeing with several decisions the league makes and you wish to quit and never return, so be it. I'm never a fan of losing members but I'm realistic when it comes to these issues, and understand people care and are passionate therefore it leads to some rants powered by emotion.

    I think the moral of the story for me is that rather than hide in a private chat, and throw stones and make assumptions at least show enough respect to take the time to actually come to the source and have a discussion. I have mad respect for the select few whom handle this concerns head on with me regardless of how often that occurs.

    And @dityboycom is right, I'm taking a bit of a break from the site this week. I've got an insane case of vertigo(ear infection) which makes playing video games interesting. I am also pretty displeased with the lack of respect I've unfortunately seen from several members on the AHL Management whom felt the need to rant behind my back and show a complete lack of respect. Especially disheartening when I've done nothing but dedicate time weekly to their successful informing them, keeping them up to date as well as including them in several future discussions when the rules state I don't truly have to, but have done so out of respect for their contributions.

    I'd appreciate if the public toxic drama feast took a break for a bit. If you want to discuss your concerns set up a meeting on Xbox with Tiddus and I.... I really think at times we lose sight that we truly can be our own worst enemy.
     
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