Xbox Player's Vote: Glitched Goalie Goals

Discussion in 'LGHL Official League News Archive' started by LG McDonald, Dec 13, 2016.

?

Should the League disallow ANY goal while a goalie is glitched ?

Poll closed Dec 18, 2016.
  1. Yes, The league should not allow ANY goal score while a goalie is glitched to stand

    48.8%
  2. No, only goalies scored during the specific examples should be disallowed.

    51.2%
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  1. VeNOM2O99

    VeNOM2O99 Legendary Goalie

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    Here's the thing: Currently there a couple of instances (that I know of and have been submitted to the Developer) that cause the goalie to go into a state where they cannot recover, either by pushing them out of the way of a shot or freezing their movements. The most serious ones occur and cannot be recovered from until the play is whistled dead, such as the bunny hop. Here are a few I know of and have already submitted to EA:

    #1 - Being bumped into (either by a teammate or an opposing player) while transitioning into a save animation. The goalie then stands absolutely still and can no longer enter any inputs to get out of that state, and may start to go into an animation loop (aka the Bunny Hop or Standing Shake).

    #2 - After a desperation type save (split glove/blocker save), the goalie will get stuck on his butt and his inputs will no longer respond for a while. It can range from one or two seconds, to about a full 10 seconds. It was believed that mashing the inputs (especially UP on the RS which makes your goalie poke check) would bring you out of that state quicker, but recently I've begun to compile evidence that the frozen state is random and you will come out of it without the need for inputs. The problem is that the amount of time you are frozen can vary and a goal can easily be scored on the goalie if he gets frozen for more than a few seconds, and there's nothing we can do about it.

    Example: https://clips.tw*tch.tv/thecreasetv/VictoriousPigeonPanicVis (replace the * by an "i")

    You can see around the 17s mark, i go into a glove save animation and then just stay sitting on the ice for a while. I cannot move. None of my inputs will register. I cannot get out of that state until the game unfreezes me. There are a few different animations that cause this, mostly desperation saves like that or the double-pad stack, which can happen at random.

    #3 - The cross-grain shot. I have been documenting this instance since its introduction after the game's 1st patch which brought it out of the "BETA" state it was in when it released. Essentially, if the goalie moves with the puck holder to cover his angles and the shooter takes a shot across the grain (in the opposite direction the they're moving in), the goalie will comlpetely whiff his save animation and allow an easy goal. This can also happen if the goalie is simply "tapping" the input lightly shortly before the shot is taken. Lately, I have been talking with jonlol (gamechanger for goalies) and putting up videos on the EA forums where Ben Ross has chimed in on the subject, and looking at some of the cues for the animations, it looks like the game is detecting the input request from the user, even after the user has released the directional stick. The game then forces a save animation "towards" the requested input, sometimes even pushing the goalie out of the way even though he would've made a save if the game had left the goalie in the spot he was in originally.

    Example: http://xboxcl*ps.com/Jtric/7cbff72c-cb6b-402a-a6c2-c680a2261287

    In this example (which is slowed down a lot), you see the goalie take a baby step towards where the shooter is going and then stop. Right away the shot is taken across the grain and you can see the goalie slide towards the motion the goalie was tracking putting him completely out of position to make the save. A save he would've made if the game had left him in the spot he was already in. At normal speed, it simply looks like the goalie shrugs his shoulders and misses the puck. But in reality the game is actually pushing the goalie out of position, and there's nothing we can do to correct it. The only effective counter measure to these cross-grain shots is to remain completely still in the middle of the crease. But that brings about other problems. The shot taken in the example clip above isn't so bad when you consider that the shooter was in a good scoring position and the shot was well placed. However, this shot is also very effective (too effective?) when the skater just crosses the blue line and lobs a shot on net in the opposite direction he is moving. The goalie is forced to challenge the shot at that distance and try to track the shooter, which he can take advantage of by taking a quick shot that goes against the grain. Nine times out of Ten, if the goalie tries to play this correctly, he can't do anything about it.

    Those are the most "common" instances where a goalie is usually put into a situation where he can't control the outcome. The third instance isn't as critical as the first two however. It could constitute a way to "pad stats" by astute players who know how to do it effectively, but there are ways to combat it and prevent it for now (until EA can patch this... if they patch this). The first instance is obviously the worst of all the situations since the goalie can't do anything to recover from it unless the play is stopped immediately to allow him to recover.

    That said, I believe that we should continue to only prevent those specific instances that are outlined in the rules. Aside from the instances outlined in my 1st paragraph, the other issues are being tracked by a number of active goalies in the community and the devs. Hopefully a patch is made available soon that will alleviate most of them.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2016
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  2. VeNOM2O99

    VeNOM2O99 Legendary Goalie

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    PS: I forgot to add to the 1st paragraph that there's another possible state where the goalie CAN actually move, but his movements are being mostly controlled by the game:

    Example: http://xboxcl*ps.com/TheCreaseTV/55d02a84-6914-49ab-857a-e78f4db8fb5f (replace the * by an "i")

    In that clip, I had just gotten hit by an opposing player crashing the net while attempting a save. And then my goalie started to move on his own all over the place. I was able to control him somewhat and attempt some save attempts, like dives, poke checks, pad stacks and even butterfly saves (I don't know how I was able to manage that save). But it just kept spazzing like that until my team scored and reset me at the next face-off.
     
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  3. Stewkos

    Stewkos Well-Known Member

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    To utilize the Buffalo-St Louis clip with the proposed rule as I understand it: If Buffalo would have scored on that initial rush the goal would have counted, and St Louis' goal off the counter attack would not. In what world is that a good solution? In that scenario St Louis would essentially have a delayed penalty (despite being the team with 6 functional users) because they still have to play defense and prevent Buffalo from scoring, but Buffalo in no way has to worry about defense because their goalie is clearly fucked and the goal won't count. You can sit there and word the rule that "As soon as you notice you must dump it out" but as the clip clearly shows, Rowski never even realized it until St Louis crossed the blueline.

    I understand that the league view is that it would be a disaster for someone's season to be decided by this, and I empathize with that perspective. However, I think the example I posted above is far more damaging to the league because you have a situation where a team would be able to knowingly abuse the league protection from being scored on to gain an unfair advantage.

    Does the league step in and make a ruling when a skater gets his animations fucked and can't move until the next whistle? What about when goalie interference goes uncalled and allows a goal that even Helen Keller could wave off? Ultimately the league should have as little a say as to what goes in during the game as possible. It's unfortunate that EA has presented us with this shit sandwich, but in my opinion the league is best served staying out of it with the hopes that decency and sportsmanship will prevent this from becoming an issue. To me, having to force a whistle so that my team doesn't give up a free goal is a far more preferable situation then a team being able to operate with impunity because the next shot that goes in won't count.

    *Just a quick disclaimer: I'm not accusing Buffalo of anything, I'm just using the posted clip to illustrate what I feel is a more damaging hypothetical.
     
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  4. SpectreGaming x

    SpectreGaming x Well-Known Member

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    Ok last time we played Ottawa, Winston got glitches out of his net and they tried to score. I was forced to take a PIM to even have a chance at them not scoring and us killing it off. We ended up losing that game because they scored the deciding goal on the PP. Goalie glitches are very clear cut and u can record video proof when the goal is scored.
     
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  5. DrugMonkeyRX

    DrugMonkeyRX Grind Line

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    Blows my mind how EA can fuck something up as bad as this. Instead of moving forward and improving the game they took a MAJOR step backwards to the point where people don't even want to play this game anymore.

    Unfucking believable
     
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  6. IHIAVOX

    IHIAVOX Member

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    is this considered a goalie glitch? got stuck in animation then threw all the way to my right.
     
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  7. DrugMonkeyRX

    DrugMonkeyRX Grind Line

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    This game is a fucking circus
     
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  8. SpIooosh

    SpIooosh Well-Known Member

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    No. I'm sure more goalie glitches will come to light, kinda like Havoks post. Dumb shit happens, it's a video game. Disallow bunny hops, that's it. You'll be getting a slew of goals to review because everyone's a sore loser.
     
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  9. GolSki40

    GolSki40 Nujabes

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    Or if you know the goalies glitched, you could, you know, Clear the puck in the stands? if It has been said I didn't read cause lul
     
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  10. Cubbies16CHAMPS

    Cubbies16CHAMPS Active Member

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    just suck up a bad goal and keep playing. artifically putting in more grey area, room for disputes, and potential restarts is a good way to kill the league. play better defense, dont allow a shot when the goalie is glitching. get a whistle. play on. dont be a baby and complain, just play. we're here for fun, not to measure dicks (oh wait).
     
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  11. Ichibani

    Ichibani Well-Known Member

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    I can't imagine faking it being a reasonable thing to do; goalies are more likely to make the save by playing right than to get away with faking.

    If you believe video review will be conclusive, then go for it.
     
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  12. VorTex Slumpdog

    VorTex Slumpdog Member

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    How about we all go screaming at EA to fix the stupid issue. It did not do this until they last updated the game.

    Here's an Idea!

    How about if a goalie is in a glitch like this, the team with the goalie Glitching should force a whistle or get a penalty, then the team should be allowed to burn the power play without any playing until all teams are back to full due to having to take a penalty because of a glitch goal.

    This is just an idea I came up with in my head that could work.
     
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  13. LG McDonald

    LG McDonald Director of Hockey Operations

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    Voting has completed. After reviewing the Owner's vote, and Player's Vote the BOG have come to their decision. Based on their decision this is the official stance the league will take in regards to Goalie Glitches:

     
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