LGAHL AHL Player Review, Mid-Season Review

Discussion in 'Leaguegaming American Hockey League (LGAHL)' started by LG McDonald, Mar 10, 2017.

  1. VVaGs82

    VVaGs82 Columbus Blue Jackets Owner LGHL Owner (XB1) AHL GM (XB1)

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    The ridiculous part is that we are trying to stop successful teams from building a good foundation of assets and drafting well just to accommodate other poor management.
     
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  2. The Legacyyyyy

    The Legacyyyyy Unknown Member AHL AGM

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    I get that this is a virtual league. At the same time, we are also, within reason trying to simulate the real thing. That being said, I personally think the organizational aspect has been lost somewhere along the way. All the time you see one and done managers with an NHL owner. Then it's on to what everyone helps will be greener pastures. In my opinion, the issue is AHL managers jumping ship, for a myriad of reasons, and not creating a relationship with their NHL owner. MOST players that are drafted do not play in the NHL their first season. I understand we have bidding here which makes it a little different, but lower leagues often do get a chance to develop players or they end up with AHL lifers. Big difference here again is alot of AHL players could go up and be vety successful at the NHL level, but choose not to. Thats a whole different debate. My point is, since we are all looking at wags here, is that this is multiple seasons working with one owner and working together to achieve common goals. This shouldnt be the exception, but the rule. This should be an example of what AHL and NHL management should look like working together. There is absolutely nothing wrong with a symbiotic relationship and rules should be made to PROMOTE developing lasting relationships between the AHL and NHL levels. Truth is, they need each other. Too often though, the AHL ends up getting smashed by their NHL team for multiple reasons. What you're looking at isnt a detriment to the league, but in my opinion, something the league should be looking for. Lasting relationships will only further the league in the long run, and create a healthier environment for all of us to enjoy. My advice to people with issues; find your @Potsy44 . If you take management under some jackass, thats your own fault, not someone elses who dedicates time into creating a winning team.
     
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  3. LG McDonald

    LG McDonald LGHL PSN and Xbox Commissioner Staff Member Admin

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    I've considered scrapping the entire waiver exemption status and stuff as well.

    Every season it seems like I am closing this loop or that rule created that loop etc.

    We dug so deep into the "two-way" contract system idea that managers and owners wanted that we have uncovered more issues than good things we have truly accomplished with this system.

    If the end goal is to have a system where by the AHL can best support the NHL forfeit issues(like the original intent of waiver exemption) we could;

    1) remove all systematic waiver exemptions from status
    2) continue to offer the ecu limits of three games max a week
    3) chance conditional waivers to state from week 7 to 9 any player on the NHL roster whom played 9 AHL games in that same season can be returned to the AHL withought clearing waivers.

    That right there solved all the issues...

    No more waiver exempt players being sent down after bidding.

    No more players being called up to play NHL games then returning to the AHL for three games basically circumventing the ECU rules

    The only waiver exemption would drafted players until they reach game limits whereby they no longer are DP status players

    That change is simple as me asking Tris to change the script so that Amateur players when sent from the NHL to the AHL NOW go on waivers. Then a rule adjustment to conditional waivers in Article Three

    I'm literally 50/50 right now. It's nice to have simulation aspects but I'm growing tired of changing rules and programming on a seasonal basis due to new issues being uncovered
     
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  4. LG McDonald

    LG McDonald LGHL PSN and Xbox Commissioner Staff Member Admin

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    I'm looking to stop changing the rules and systems every season.

    I love grown beyond tired of dealing with same headaches season after seasons as managers come and go whom don't see what you and potsy did as an organization strategy goal but something "shady"

    The reality is if Faces was a Veteran he would have went for 500k in NHL bidding, which to me showed no other team had interest. Thereby the saw theory would be he would have cleared waivers because teams couldn't claim him just to send him down based on the rules resulting in the same situation we have right now.

    Waiver exemption has caused headaches because people don't understand how it could be used to benefit their organization. As Mees said AHL managers bounce from owner to owner and there is zero consistency at the AHL level.

    So my issue isn't what you did, my issue is the amount of people whom have complained, said it was unfair or shady but have yet to look at the larger picture which is what you guys accomplished.

    Yea I stand here 50/50 on what change I make because I'm tired of people complaining about league issues without coming up with their own solutions to our issues.

    Everyone wants to be the commissioner for five minutes but not many want to forward with ideas or solutions to solve our problems.

    The easy fix is scrap the whole exemption idea and make things basic again. The hard fix is educate and limit the ability to do it(the adjustment changes to our status numbers)

    It would be nice to hear what others think and what other solutions we have out there
     
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  5. The Legacyyyyy

    The Legacyyyyy Unknown Member AHL AGM

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    I want to also say I am not completely against rule changes here. Should faces be an Amateur, absolutely not. To me, the league you're in really shouldnt have too much to do with your status. If you've played for multiple seasons here and there is no suspicion that you are a second tag, I see no issue with you being a veteran. Lowering the amount of games is a great idea in my opinion. I think fundamentally changing the league too much makes it more difficult on everyone. My first management season there were some significant differences, one being prospects were roster eligible and they were the ones who could go up and down freely. I get the issue with that was of course second tags... I did spend my first season here going through the dallas organization ;) I think finding a nice happy medium would be a wonderful thing to find for the health of the league. I would be more than happy to get into a party with people who would be interested in talking it out and finding a solution that creates more depth in the bidding pool but also promotes great organizational relationships.
     
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  6. Dan0245

    Dan0245 Well-Known Member

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    I personally believe the amount of games should be lowered or the alternative that the waiver wire include amatuer for the first several weeks of the season to prevent what teams did this season. Another thing I suggest is doing something similar with draftpicks that they cannot be called up from CHL within the first couple weeks previously allowing teams to send guys to the training camp and call up later after having several additional free bids.
     
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  7. ele905

    ele905 S27 Islanders

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    The main issue I have (and remember I'm a team that had people sent down so I'm debating against myself) is that none of the arguments made hint or even talk about 'then how will my NHL team avoid forfeits' which was the intention of the statuses.

    The intention of waiver exemption was for teams to be able to send guys up to help their NHL while having the ability to send them back down without them being on waivers.


    If the argument we're making is that 'other teams should plan better and send people down too' or just proves that the system is being abused or used for the wrong reasons.

    The waiver exemption wasn't put in place to get guys sent down cheap. Sure we can do it but that's not why it's a rule.
     
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  8. VVaGs82

    VVaGs82 Columbus Blue Jackets Owner LGHL Owner (XB1) AHL GM (XB1)

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    You're still looking at it thru AHL eyes only. The NHL bids on people and has draft picks in ahl then decides who they want to call up or send down. Every player Columbus got and sent down have ecu'd multiple times and have been very instrumental in helping them contend for the playoffs. The changes you suggest will have a negative effect on management at the NHL level.
     
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  9. LG McDonald

    LG McDonald LGHL PSN and Xbox Commissioner Staff Member Admin

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    That is a fair and legit argument.

    I know when I put the rule in place the intent wasn't for what it is being used for now.

    On a side note we could also close the waiver wire / transfer wire for a week or two as well. So if a team wants to carry a player for a week or two then send them down. So be it.

    The argument ive seen made(even though it wasn't the rules intent) is the fact that in order for the NHL team to truly take advantage of this rule the NHL team needs tom draft incredibly well.

    So the question becomes basically;

    A) Do we make a rule change to completely eliminate the possibly of this occurring?

    B) Do we make changes to make this less likely? Adding in things like status changes for AHL games? Placement of DP prior to bidding? When waivers opens? Etc
     
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  10. LG McDonald

    LG McDonald LGHL PSN and Xbox Commissioner Staff Member Admin

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    But if you call a spade a spade, Potsy bid on Faces for you because he drafted a player he wanted on the NHL team...

    Same went for when Gucci was called up then went RFA.. it was to benefit the AHL based on NHL DPs sitting on AHL TCs...

    I'm not here saying what you did was wrong or right.

    All I am saying is there was a plan and intent which wasn't what the rules were implemented for... which is what Ele is saying as well.
     
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  11. VVaGs82

    VVaGs82 Columbus Blue Jackets Owner LGHL Owner (XB1) AHL GM (XB1)

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    I agree, but the changes proposed would take an owners right to choose away. Hypothetically what if u change the rules and an owner drafts guys that he thinks could be NHL caliber but is forced to pick what level they start at. Then they bid on guys that just don't work out and would be better off in ahl and serve as ecu. Then they would have to send them thru waivers giving any bottom feeding team a free shot at a good player. I'm against all rules that are geared to helping bad teams and punish people who put the effort into making fun and competitive teams. It's a societal issue that everything thinks everything needs to be equal. Competitive gaming is not socialism. I came into the ahl as a nobody and work hard and smart to build successful teams and all this bullshit is based on complaints from people who think it's not fair. Get better.
     
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  12. LG McDonald

    LG McDonald LGHL PSN and Xbox Commissioner Staff Member Admin

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    The difference is in your situation all the hypothetical things you just discussed above were predetermined by you and your owner prior to NHL bidding. Everyone knows that and sees it, hence why you have taken much heat for it all season.

    Does not mean you are wrong that perhaps some owners want that flexibility.

    Is the move shady? I don't think so. I believe it's strategical.

    Which goes back to what I replied to ele. We have to make a decision on what direction we go from here on out.
     
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  13. Crease-Fire

    Crease-Fire Well-Known Member

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    This coming from a guy who had his team handed down to him from NHL bidding. I understand why you don't want anything to change, you don't want to lose out of your 500k players sent to you.
     
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  14. The Legacyyyyy

    The Legacyyyyy Unknown Member AHL AGM

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    I don't think you read what brodie wrote. If you noticed he stated that the 500k players would have probably cleared waivers anyways since no one else thought they were worthy of a bid. Would anything have changed if they were on the waiver wire after bidding? You would then have another team placing someone on waivers and if they clear would we be all over that team for getting a player for 500k?? I would hardly say 3/17 players constitute "having our team handed to us." The other 14 players on this team would strongly disagree that they make up our whole team. Brodie brings up a good point. How would we then correct this type of issue? The only possible way would be a roster lock of some sort in my opinion for a certain amount of time. The issue with that is now you're forcing teams to not be able to make organizational moves for a set amount of time, thereby limiting their ability to properly manage their team. I think at least for this upcoming season, the best I've heard is to change the amount of games needed to change a players status. More A's turning to V's will potentionally limit send downs after nhl bidding. More P's becoming A's will add some more skill into the bidding pools and keep prices down a bit more than they have been. I think the majority of gripes really stem from that; paying millions more for players than you ever would have had to in the past due to the lack of players in the bidding pool. More P's turning into A's will help keep prices down and level the playing field a little more.
     
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  15. l KaV l

    l KaV l AA is for quitters

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    I think he is more referring to how it happened and not the price of the player, for instance if there was no amateur players to be sent down in the first place to make these bids then, yes those guys would not have got a bid and came down to the AHL and went for 5-6-7 million not 500K. (referring to the first part of your post)

    I am fine with the rules how they are, I was just looking for something to make things a little more fair across the board for everyone new or old, I am just a player so either way im fine with it and will still show up to play, but these are one of those things that stop me from applying to be management. Not saying I would get picked or that I am good at managing but why bother go through the stress of 8 weeks when you can see before bidding who is going to win the calder (or the best chances) I figured using/trading for re-signs and 2-3 year contracts was enough help to build your team, now you can get 500K AHL all-stars and save 5-6 mill in cap too


    I wonder if something as simple as making Amateurs go through waivers would prevent some of this, if owner's knew there was a potential risk in losing the player, Again im not against the rules allowing this, so something like have some risk for the reward or limit this to 1-2 players? average amateurs I can see this happening, but you got a Connor Mcdavid or Austin Matthews on the joysticks you are not going to send them down to make roster room to sign a guy to send to your AHL and call them up (alot to follow there haha) those guys are locks for the NHL roster in virtual or real hockey... I dont know I like to see both sides of the coin so I could ramble all day but ill leave it at this for now lol

    So I suppose, in conclusion I feel its fair, but abused to a degree
     
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  16. The Legacyyyyy

    The Legacyyyyy Unknown Member AHL AGM

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    I get what you're saying, but that's why I pointed out waivers or no waivers, there wasn't much interest in either player. I was saying I'd agree faces should be considered a veteran anyways, and while we don't know for sure, he probably would have cleared waivers since he only went for 500k.
     
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  17. LG McDonald

    LG McDonald LGHL PSN and Xbox Commissioner Staff Member Admin

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    That's the common ground we have to consider.

    We have to ask ourselves as League as we look to continue to grow the AHL and NHL; "what direction do we want to go?"

    A) add changes in so Faces would be a V and would have to clear waivers in that specific situation

    B) eliminate it completely by removing waiver exemption etc

    The two cases I can think of are Deligan and Faces.

    Both entered bidding as A players.

    Both got 500k bids

    Both got sent down which becomes this debatable discussion.

    If both deli and Faces were Veteran players whom got send down, would they have cleared waivers? I think for the most part yea they woulda cleared waivers.

    If both were in AHL bidding would they have gone for more than 500k? 100% they woulda have

    How much prep goes into an NHL team being able to select a deli or Faces to send down? A lot, because teams would have to draft players whom are NHL ready

    When we do the math and look at the equations the comment complaint is in regards to V or A status... therefore the suggestion I ultimately put forth I think would bring us as a collective group closer to what we all feel is "fair"

    Keep all that in mind we also want to change some stuff to create more amateurs and more Veterans players and perhaps look to add more drafted players each season(maybe 4 in season 27 and 5 in season 28)
     
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  18. Crease-Fire

    Crease-Fire Well-Known Member

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    Only draft picks should be waiver exempt imo. I don't agree with nhl bidding on a player just to send them down. If they can just keep the drafted players they plan on using and send down the ones they won't, would even the odds for all ahl teams.

    The community can come up with a bunch of different ideas but it will never be perfect and not everyone will like it.

    I would prefer teams build their 17 player roster with DP they plan on using and let the ahl management build their team.

    As for a players status, it's good the way it is but I would just give V status to a player once an nhl team wins him/her in bidding.
    This way, amateurs who is won in NHL bidding becomes a V. Amateur players who is won in AHL bidding stays an A and is waiver exempt till x amount of NHL games played if called up.
     
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  19. Crease-Fire

    Crease-Fire Well-Known Member

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    "Placement of DP prior to bidding" this is something I would like to see.
     
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